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Sunday, February 8, 2009

Speaking to a lost soul


Sarah Livingston said...

All these people had to do was to go quietly hand out some tracts and talk with these people. You are leading people AWAY from CHRIST ! You are causing people to turn AWAY from the MOST HOLY CREATOR! May GOD have mercy on your soul !

verandoug said...


99.9% of these folks are professing Christians. That is one of the reasons we put this video up. The homosexual thinks he's a Christian. He asks for forgiveness at the end of the day. Handing out tracts is certainly one way to share our faith. But the Bible states this, "

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

These people are already away from Him but unfortunately, believe they are saved. How can we make them any more lost than they already are? They want to continue to sin. They are taught by your social gospel that they can sin and be saved.

Do you even know what the message is? Jesus preached the gospel. Guess what He preached?

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

We are not trying to get people to join our social club. If we get them to sign a card or say a little prayer that does nothing if they do not repent of their sins and be reconciled to God.

I want you to see a confrontation that Paul had in Acts 13. This is probably the most profound of all the encounters these men had but it illustrates how much American Christianity is away from the heart of these first believers.

So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus. And when they arrived in Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. They also had John as their assistant.
Now when they had gone through the island[a] to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.” And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand. Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had been done, being astonished at the teaching of the Lord.

This was done during a moment when Paul is trying to share his faith with someone. What is the "sign and wonder" that gets that proconsul to believe? You know what you would have said to Paul? "You're doing it wrong, Paul. Just hand him a tract because you caused Barjesus to turn away from Christ today our most Holy Creator."

Reread the book of Acts and ask yourself how you might respond if you saw the same things being done today. Reread the epistles and ask yourself if God allows sinners into heaven.


Sarah Livingston said...

My social club?? Do I even know what the Gospel is?? Lady, you are unbelievable! You automatically assume, without knowing me, that because you need correction in the Word that I must not know what I'm talking about. Check your ego sister, because it is burning you up.

Bottom line is that you are turning people away from Christ with your yelling and acting in childish ways. If even ONE soul turns away because of your misguided, blind self then your will be judged more harshly than they will.

I pray that you will be able to set your EGO aside long enough to get on your knees and pray to Christ for the correction that you so very desperately need in how to TRULY lead people to Christ.

And by the way, yes, a gay person can be saved. ALL people sin. YOU sin, too. To deny that you do is to call Jesus Christ a liar.

verandoug said...


Let me see if I can't explain this more clearly. Firstly, I can gather a great deal about what you believe by the mere fact that you have a very pronounced opinion that we aren't "doing it right" and concerning your position on sin and salvation. We talk to a great many types of people so I know a lot about what people believe. But I wouldn't want to jump to a conclusion yet on just how far you take your beliefs. For example, are you actually sinning or do you just falsely believe that the unrighteous will inherit the kingdom? I don't know if you take your beliefs that far nor if that is the reason that you are offended. I can tell you this much, someone is misleading you.

Part of the reason you believe we are misled is because you believe that the object of getting someone to become a Christian is to get them to simply agree that Jesus died for their sins. Can you please demonstrate a situation in the book of Acts where anyone was led to Jesus by this method?

These men of God is Scripture spoke loudly in public and they addressed the sins of people by preaching.

Bottom line is that you are turning people away from Christ with your yelling and acting in childish ways. If even ONE soul turns away because of your misguided, blind self then your will be judged more harshly than they will.

I gave you an example where the apostle Paul was actually harsher than our ministry has ever been.

We aren't turning people away. They are already turned away. If you criticize us for pointing out that they won't get in in their sin then you would have to criticize both Jesus and the apostles for not "doing it right."

And by the way, yes, a gay person can be saved. ALL people sin. YOU sin, too. To deny that you do is to call Jesus Christ a liar.

No, I do not sin every day. I have been set free. That is how the children of God are manifest from the children of the devil. See 1 John 3

The Bible says in 1 Cor. 6:9-11 this, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

That is just one. But it is the most obvious one to let you know that you are not holding to Biblical doctrine.

I am not trying to harm you. I am trying to lead you to check things out for yourself. Don't take my word for it. Reread your Bible and ask yourself if what I'm saying is true.


Sarah Livingston said...


I do not need to 'reread the Bible'. I read it every single day. Nor do I need for you to tell me about Paul and the book of Acts.

As far as you saying that you do not sin every day, you are a liar. Just an out and out liar. Every single human being sins every single day. You put yourself above God when you say that you do not. You obviosuly have not been set free from anything, especially not your own arrogance. I have only to conclude that you are shallow in your faith and not the Christian that you proclaim to be.

Nowhere have I said that repentance is not part of salvation, but that does NOT mean that a person can stop sinning.

Bottom line is that you believe that a person's salvation can be taken from them. You make a mockery of God. I pray that he has mercy on you before it is too late. Most likely, your arrogance is more important to you than your Salvation.

verandoug said...


Most churches on purpose do not show you Scriptures that contradict what you believe. In our old church, they were called "Scriptures too hot to handle." So they never handled them. Here is one of them and if you want more, we'll give you more.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:26-31

And btw, what sin is it that you can't possibly stop? If Jesus was in the same room with you all the time, would you continue in that sin?


Sarah Livingston said...

Vera, I do not need for you to show me scripture. I run a Bible study for women at our church and I also have filled our home with Bibles in case someone needs shelter after the Rapture, they will also know what has happened to us.

At any rate, Jesus is always with us, Vera. There is never a place where the Spirit of God is not, even in our minds. You and every human being on this earth sin on a daily basis thought your thoughts, even if the sin is not a physical act. You also sin subconsciously, when you are not even aware of it. It is the nature of the fallen man. You can sit on a remote island where you have not a single bit of contact with any other human and still sin.

Yes, God does set you free from sin, but he does not take away the fact that you are still part of a fallen creation and that you are not perfect in Him until you are present with him in Heaven, where there will never be sin.

I truly do feel that you have exalted yourself above Christ if you think that sin is impossible once you are saved.

I will pray for your eyes to be opened by Christ.

verandoug said...


I am enjoying our conversation.

You know, I've been giving you Scripture. So far, all you've given me is your opinion.

First let me say that the epistles were never meant to be broken up into parts. They were letters that were to be read as a whole. We can't, therefore, cherry pick through them pulling out the ones we like and dismissing the ones we don't like.

1 John is one of my favorites on this topic. John starts out by saying that if we sin and ask for forgiveness, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. That's a good thing.

I had always thought as you did that I was supposed to just take sin for granted and then if it happened, I was to ask forgiveness and move along. No big deal. I really had no fear of God on this issue. So for the first years of my Christian walk, because of that teaching, I was sinning up a storm. Ultimately, I fell into gross sin. And like 1 John says, I was cleansed from all unrighteousness once I repented. I believe that. I believe that God can clean up the foulest sinner. I know because He did it for me. He didn't, however, take away all the consequences. These are just friendly reminders in my life of just how much God hates sin.

But see John goes on to say a lot more and here in chapter 3:4-11 it says this, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

This is the third time now that I have pointed out to you in Scripture that it is a deception to believe that we sin every day and at the end of the day are forgiven. John expressly says that we cannot sin because we are born of God.

I have the power of the Holy Spirit, His Word, His grace to help me overcome and be more than a conquerer.

2 Timothy 3 is another interesting passage. It states This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

In essence, that is what you are saying. You despise anyone that would claim power to be "good." You are saying that God is powerless to give us the grace to take away our sins because we're human.

Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh. Romans 8 He was tempted just as we are and had all the parameters set just like we are but He didn't give into His flesh and by that, He defeated sin and we can too because He went to the Father. That makes Jesus's life and virtue even that much more remarkable. Now His Spirit can live in us and we can be His children if we suffer with Him.

When I began looking at the Bible from this perspective, the confusion of the whole thing seemed to vanish. Many years ago, I read the Bible daily but I had many questions and things that I didn't seem to understand. But now, it is like pieces of a puzzle with all the pieces finally fitting. This has been going on for several years now. It isn't a relatively new thing but in comparison to all my other years as a Christian, I can honestly say that I finally understand the message.

Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. We can be a bride without spot or blemish. We can make His enemy His footstool by His power and grace. His will can be done here on earth as it is in heaven and it is not His will for us to continue in our sin. God hates all workers of iniquity. Psalm 5:5. Only the ones who do the will of the Father will be received into heaven. If you are still a worker of iniquity, you don't know Him.

My thoughts are not impure because I bath them in the Word of God daily.

The rapture is not something to focus on. It will happen when it happens. If you truly want to be ready, make sure you have plenty of oil in your lamp. How do you do that? By being freed from sin so that you can be full of His Spirit.